Open Forum, Prayer Requests, and Praise

<< Topics
Highdaddy posted on 12/6/2000 11:58:14 PMReply
Is Music Really Dirty?

Please read the following article on Christian instrumental music and post your comments below.

Click here for article


Dimer posted on 12/7/2000 8:43:15 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

What a blessing it was for me to discover Christian music on the radio!

Robbie F posted on 12/7/2000 8:53:50 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Amen, Brother Brent! Christian music has come a long way since the days of Stryper and Petra. You can find a Christian alternative to just about any style of secular music. Christian music is truly "music with a message"! Why not fill our cars, homes, businesses, ears, and hearts with positive music instead of mindless nonsense that Eminem and Kid Rock put out. I have found myself "worshipping" in my car (saving others from my voice) singing praise songs from Christian artists at the top of my lungs before. Christian music has come a long way and I hope and pray it is here to stay!

Skat posted on 12/7/2000 9:02:21 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Thanks for keeping it in the car, Robbie.

JC posted on 12/7/2000 10:04:48 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Great story! I believe Christian music is a very powerful ministry. I am constantly encouraged by the music of various Christian artists - and their different styles. I agree the WOW CD's are a great source of versatile positive messages. My radio dials have slowly changed from alternative rock to 101.1 and The Way. Their morning shows are a welcome change from the bad jokes that abound on the other stations. I spend a lot of time in the car praying and focusing on God - and one of the main ways I do that is by listening to (and, of course, singing) Christian music.

Highdaddy posted on 12/7/2000 10:16:37 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

What about "I'm the Skatman....shubby dubby dub dub da da dub?"

Highdaddy posted on 12/7/2000 10:18:11 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Great article on Marshall Mathers, a.k.a. "Eminem" at ChristianBox.com

JC posted on 12/7/2000 4:27:12 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

It is sad to me how people (I refrain from using the word artist) like Eminem become popular, but I do believe that he will disapear from the music scene as quickly as he appeared. I have been pleasantly suprised that some rock groups today - specifically Creed - have maintained their popularity, and to a degree, built their popularity by sharing their spirituality. If you get a chance, check out the Creed Behind the Music on VH1 - their not Contemporary Christian, but they aren't afraid to talk about being Christians and writing positive/spiritual songs.

zoomer3 posted on 12/7/2000 5:01:50 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

I have to check out Creed. I was at my son's piano recital the other evening and they also had some guitar students. This one 3rd grader played a cool song and I asked who the original artist was and he said Creed.

I am like you guys. I enjoy Christian music but don't exclusively listen to it. My wife and I took our son and niece to see Third Day and Newsboys. I have never been to a concert where they stopped and had a prayer! It was great.

This kid in our youth group told us about this Christian club which is a venue for young Christian bands of all kinds. These are great, safe places for our kids to be together and have Quality lyrics filling their minds(I'm not always certain about the quality of the music, but the words are good).


Scotty D posted on 12/8/2000 3:44:29 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

If it ain't Christian, it ain't music.

I really haven't had a special revelation from God or anything, but I'd be willing to risk a sizeable amount of money, that the only music they will be playing in Heaven is Christ and God centered.

X-Country music fan.


jonathan posted on 12/9/2000 5:49:03 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Brent,

I don't know if you've seen it or not, but Ken Sublett posted your article on his website at Piney.com and then basically refuted every point you made. I personally don't agree with about 90% of what he said. A lot of it seemed to be talking about stuff you didn't even mention.

j


zoomer3 posted on 12/11/2000 6:41:29 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

There weren't any surprises for me at the piney.com site. I think I heard that hammered from pulpits throughout my childhood. We all choose to hold fast to those things we want and to let go of those things we do not want. I don't really agree with almost anything that Ken said, but like he said at the close, I don't have to. Thanks be to God. Now, turn up the Christian music.

JC posted on 12/13/2000 12:21:03 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

I am disturbed by the article that was written about how terrible Christian music is. I respect each and every person's opinion, but I am sad that someone can feel the need to write (that much) of a response condeming Christian music. I realize the controversial nature of this, but why someone wants to be that judgemental over the reasons why people create Christian music and the intended nature of its message is beyond reason. I would encourage everyone who has that hard-lined of a stance against something that is so positive to spend a little less time telling people how its wrong to do things that make us stronger Christians. I respect the fact that someone might not like or accept this style of music, but I resent the fact that people are still trying to judge other people's genuine effort to make the world a better and more spiritual place. It does more harm than good for someone to tell me that I shouldn't feel uplifted, or that it's wrong that I am uplifted, by something that makes me give more praise to God. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Robyn posted on 1/25/2001 11:10:11 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Brent, you know what really makes me smile about the coc and christian music? We take one verse - about the HEART - singing and making medody in our HEARTS to the Lord, then we add some historical stuff from Josephus about what was done back then and then a smidgen of "we speak where the Bible speaks and we're silent where the Bible is silent" and then we pour out - No Musical Instruments. But you know it is even better than this. We take what should be a matter of each person's own opinion and we conform it also to popular christian music. So, instead of our teenagers listening to music on the radio or cd's that speak of a relationship with the Lord, how wonderful He is, how our souls sing with joy about being His children, how in the words of Steven Curtis Chapman we are "invited to believe the unbelieveable" (what a gift God's grace is) our teenagers listen to pop music about sex, about drugs about unfulfilled relationships- from artists who Satan has ensconsed in his pocket. Now where tell me please is the logic in all of that. Our line of thinking saddens me so much. What a gift God gave when he gave artists the desire and the ability to sing about Him in such ways that our hearts are lightened and encouraged when we are through music pointed back to the reality of such a fantastic awesome God. God's richest richest blessings and empowerment to those who serve Him and us in this manner. Robyn

Flintstone posted on 1/28/2001 9:48:36 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

There are many things proper in the world not so in worship unto God. John 4:24 is foundational. I would suggest examining closely the changes Jereboam made in I Kings 12 so as to appease the people, pacify their worship desires and keep them from going south to Jerusalem. The supposed justification for departures from what God has ordained is based purely upon subjective feelings and emotionalism.

dj posted on 1/29/2001 1:27:09 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

having grown-up in the 60's and 70's i later found what a negative influence music had on my life. its driving force to influence you into a false reality. fortunately i found christian music later on as an adult. it has greatly changed my life as i also share it with others.

there is a christian group called apologetix which take secular songs and rewrites them as biblical parodies. check them out at www.apologetix.com

WHY SHOULD THE DEVIL HAVE ALL THE GOOD MUSIC!


zoomer3 posted on 1/29/2001 5:10:23 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Flintstone,

I think most long term members of the C of C can recognize the emotionalism and the feelings of a Hell, Fire and Brimstone scare sermon and of 26 verses of "Just As I Am", while the preacher continues to plead with the audience "Why not now, why not come to Jesus now?" That was the emotionalism I grew up with. But that was appropriate because it made people walk the aisle and the elders liked those statistics.

So, maybe feelings and emotionalism were interjected into our services long ago.


Flintstone posted on 1/30/2001 9:35:04 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Zoom 3,
I seem to recall Paul saying that since we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ to give account of our lives, and that knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men, such is proper. That some may have "overdone" it, used poor judgment, certainly possible. But where anywhere did anybody get the idea that if something makes you feel good that makes it fine and dandy with God? The icons of catholicism are supposed to get you closer to God, but they don't. They substitute for God's authorized means for approaching Him. The same principle has bearing on this topic of discussion. The difference is between an abuse of that which is authorized and that which is not authorized at all.


zoomer3 posted on 1/30/2001 10:37:53 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Why do we have harmony? Is it for God? Is God more pleased with harmony than monotones? We have harmony because WE like it. It sounds good and is pleasing to us, it has nothing to do with what God wants. Harmony is not mentioned in the Bible We, in the C of C, are certainly proficient and "big promoters" of the use of harmony in our singing. Are we abusing something that is "authorized" or is harmony "that which is not authorized"?

If you read to the inclusion of harmony, could we not also read to the inclusion of musical instruments?


Flintstone posted on 1/30/2001 2:48:29 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Zoom 3,
Vocal music is authorized, singing harmoniously is still vocal music, therefore singing harmoniously is authorized. That can't be said of mechanical instruments of music in worship to God.


zoomer3 posted on 1/30/2001 4:42:03 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Psalm 33:1-3 David writes, "Sing joyfully to the Lord, you righteous; it is fitting for the upright to praise him. Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy." I kind of get the idea that God likes the instruments, especially those played skillfully (no bad musicians, please

After Jesus died on the cross, God no longer liked the sound of the harp, is that your position? God changed? But God doesn't change, does He?

Scriptural silence does not mean "no" and there's nothing in the Bible to support that. "Speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible's silent" is not in my Bible. That's one of the man-made traditions which we hold to that makes the Church of Christ as much of a denomination as any Christian sect. Who said that anyway Alexander Campbell?

What about whistling, clapping, shouting, humming and snapping? No instruments there. Are they authorized or unauthorized?

Nothing is said of harmony in the scriptures, nothing is said of instruments. Yet, we approve of adding harmony(a man-made tradition) to please us, yet balk at the addition of musical instruments(a man-made tradition) to please us. But, obviously David thought God liked instrumental music, but you say God lost His taste for it.


Flintstone posted on 1/30/2001 7:09:35 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Zoom,
God desired the smell of animal flesh burning on an open fire in worship at one time, but not now. God allowed multiple wives, demanded circumcision, segmented one tribe to be His priests, but not now. Bible authority for instrumental music, humming, whistling, etc. in Christian worship is absent. No church in the first century ever used it. Neither the Lord not His inspired spokesmen ever sanctioned it. This has been proven numerous times down through the years, and now a generation arises saying, "We like it, we want it, and we are going to have it." Remember Jereboam, the son of Nebat, who caused Israel to sin. And the children of Israel who desired a king so that they could be like the nations around them. They got what they wanted, but realized too late they didn't really want what they asked for.


Robyn posted on 1/31/2001 12:53:55 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Have had this discussion myself just recently in the Southern Hemisphere. One person talking apples and another talking pears.

zoomer3 posted on 1/31/2001 1:07:48 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Well, you know Jesus made the sacrifice once and for all, and the NT is also very "vocal" on the other issues you mentioned as well, yet is "silent" on the instrumental issue. Now, what gives us the right to make our contrived mission statement about "speaking where the Bible speaks and being silent where the Bible's silent", a law for the world? It's as though this was handed down to Moses as the 11th commandment.

So all vocal is good, including harmony, which is not mentioned or authorized. Now what about the new advent of "praise teams" in the C of C? That's all vocal music? Does you congregation approve of and have song services lead by a group of singers rather than the authorized one man waving his arm? Or is this too unauthorized(like harmony)?

What about deaconesses? Those are authorized in the NT. Phoebe? Do you have deaconesses at your church? Does your church raise holy hands, also an authorized activity in the NT? Do you elders lay hands on and pray for the sick, also a sanctioned activity in the 1st century Church.

My point is we don't do everything to the letter of the law in the C of C, but a lot of times we talk like we do and portrait this image that we have the perfect and ideal format, just the way God ordained it to be, and that simply is NOT the case. Like everyone else, we hold fast to the things of the NT that are comfortable for us and let go of the things that are not. You know I've come to realize that we can conveniently hop, skip through the Bible with the best of them.

But praise and thanks be to God that Christ's blood makes us whole and worthy to come into the presence of God to offer up our lowly and less-than-adequate songs of worship in harmony or unison and with or without a harp.


Flintstone posted on 1/31/2001 9:26:14 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Zoomer 3,
Since authority is based upon what is said and not what is not said, where is the authority for mechanical instruments of music in Christian worship? The authority for such is in the same place as substituting cornbread and buttermilk for unleavened bread and fruit of the vine, or sprinkling for immersion, or walnut for gopher wood. There is none.


zoomer3 posted on 1/31/2001 12:10:13 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

So your congregation has deaconesses? And they allow the raising of Holy hands? What about all of the other things the 1st century church did that we do not do? They met in homes, we meet in unauthorized buildings. They shared the wealth, having all things in common. Do you? Also, do you acknowledge I Corinthians 12 and 14? Now there's some authorization for you. I would doubt any of that occurs with any frequency in your congregation. Am I right? You see, we take what we want and we leave (with lame excuses)what we do not want.

syma531 posted on 1/31/2001 2:24:41 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

It also says that Satan has come to steal kill and destroy, and that God has created all things. I take this to mean that Satan is incapable of creating anything on his own. Thus, all musical instruments were created by God, as were many other artistic forms of expression including art, literature, dance, etc. We Christians have stood by far too long and let Satan pervert our arts. It is time that we redeem the arts. All things are to be done to the glory of God, to me it stands to reason that God would not create anything that could not be used to his glory.

Cool posted on 3/21/2001 8:43:32 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Whatever side you are on concerning this, we must ask:

Wouldn't all that money that would be used for organs and other instuments be of better use for such things as

1. The going forth of the gospel into all the world (Matt. 24:14; 28:16-20 Mark 16:15).

2. The benevolence requests of those in the congregation

3. The feeding, sheltering and clothing of the poor and unemployed/underemployed.

Considering the choices, WWJD?


walt posted on 3/22/2001 7:57:44 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

WWJD?

Read: Matt 26:6-13
Mark 14:3-9


Cool posted on 3/22/2001 8:50:12 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Matthew 26 follows Matthew 25:31-46 where Jesus speaks of giving, but the parable in Matthew 25 has a deeper spiritual meanining-

those who are hungry need spiritual food - Jesus said "I am the bread of life"
those who are thirsty need the living water of the gospel - (John 7:38)
those who are naked are spiritually naked

Truly I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be spoken of in memory of her." - Matthew 26:13

We are told to love our neighbor and what greater love could we have our neighbor than to bring the gospel to them.

The greatest need of mankind is not physical healing but spiritual.

We must allocate as much as our resources as possible to reach the world with the gospel least they be consumed and ourselves as well for disobeying -- remember the parable of the talents - the talents aren't worldly knowledge, but SPIRITUAL knowledge as is the case in Matthew 25:29!


David A. Vaughn posted on 3/22/2001 8:52:01 AMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Great artical. keep up the great work. I would like to talk to you so email me at davaughn@bellsouth.net and we will exchange phone numbers.

Steve S. posted on 3/22/2001 12:03:26 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Hey, Cool, let's take this question a little further.

1. Could we not use the money spent on a building (used about 6 hours per week) to feed the widows and orphans?

2. Could we not use the money spent on a "paid, imported, located preacher" to also do these good things?

If we have a building let's try to make good use Jehovah's money spent that we spent. Let's use it for AA meetings, seminars for family involvement, or anything that benefits others. DON'T LET IT SIT VACANT 90% OF THE TIME!!!

In Him, Steve


Cool posted on 3/22/2001 1:58:53 PMReply
RE: Is Music Really Dirty?

Steve

Greetings from the NJ shore.

As to question #1, a building is needed by a congregation as it grows. The NT church primarily met in homes, but in homes, as you know, space is limited, so therefore a building would be a necessity, I don't think organs, etc. are a necessity as the building is.

As you question #2 - absolutely yes! (Matt.10:8).

In His Grace
Brother Jonathan




FS Sample Sites
HilldaleCC.org
back40outreach.com
RodsCalvaryWebsite.com
BrentwoodHills.org

Bible Search

Add Bible to your site
Search FaithSite.com
Site-specific content Copyright (c) 2000 FaithSite.com or Used by Permission
All other content Copyright (c) 2000 FaithSites, Inc. All rights reserved.
Use of this site is subject to Terms of Service and to our Privacy Policy.
.